Ralph Zuranski: Jay taught guerrilla marketing for ten years at the extension division of the University of California in Berkeley. He was a practitioner of it in the United States – as Senior Vice President of J. Walter Thompson, and in Europe, as Creative Director of Leo Burnett Advertising.
Ralph Zuranski: He has written a monthly column for Entrepreneur Magazine, articles for Inc. Magazine, and online columns published monthly on the Microsoft website. Jay also has written online columns for Netscape, America Online, Hewlett-Packard and American Express.
Ralph Zuranski: He is the Chairman of Guerrilla Marketing International, a marketing partner of Adobe and Apple. His legendary Guerrilla Marketing is a series of books, workshops, audios, videos, a CD-ROM, an Internet website, and now, The Guerrilla Marketing Association – an interactive marketing support system for small business that puts you in direct contact with Jay every week.
Ralph Zuranski: Most of all, Guerrilla Marketing is a way for business owners to spend less, get more, and achieve substantial profits.
Ralph Zuranski: And this is the man to transform you into a guerrilla marketer – The Father of Guerrilla Marketing – Jay Conrad Levinson.
Ralph Zuranski: Jay, how are you doing today?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Doing just fine, especially after hearing those glowing words. Thank you, Ralph.
Ralph Zuranski: You have an amazing track record. You probably single-handedly changed the world and helped millions of business people get more and do more for less money and less time.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That means that I achieved my goal because that is what I was trying to do.
Ralph Zuranski: I really appreciate you taking your valuable time to answer the Hero’s questions. You are definitely one of my heroes because you have helped so many small entrepreneurs and big businesses, too, to be more successful. And that is what business is all about, being successful. What is your definition of heroism?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think it’s doing what you think would be difficult for you to do. Something you were scared to do but doing it after all and doing it well. I think that is real heroism.
Ralph Zuranski: So you think it takes a lot of courage to be a hero?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Not necessarily, but ordinarily, yes. It takes a lot of interior courage. Not the kind you might be able to make a movie out of, like seeing someone rushing into a blazing building. But the kind that causes a person to do something that other people said, “Well, you can’t do that,” or “You’ve never done that before,” and doing it anyhow. I think that is a hero.
Ralph Zuranski: What is your perspective on goodness, ethics and moral behavior?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think that those are part and parcel of everything I write about in Guerrilla Marketing. If you don’t practice those things, you’re not going to feel good about yourself and the world isn’t going to feel good about you.
Jay Conrad Levinson: It’s something that you probably, if you are doing it right, don’t have to try to be those things and do those things. Those are things that are inherent within you, maybe because of training you received as you were growing up.
Ralph Zuranski: What are the principles you are willing to sacrifice your life for?
Jay Conrad Levinson: There haven’t been many sacrifices that I’ve had to make. The principles that I’ve had to sacrifice already: leaving the home where I was brought up, leaving father, mother, and sister, when I struck out to leave Chicago and move west to California. Those were things I left behind that were of value to me in my own act of heroism, moving west.
Ralph Zuranski: In the world today there’s sort of a question about the people who actually get paid to put their lives on the line compared to the people that sacrifice their own self-interest to help people, members of their family that are sick, or people in their community that need help. What do you think is the different between that sacrifice of people who sacrifice their lives and those who do a quiet sacrifice on a daily basis to help others?
Jay Conrad Levinson: The ones who do it on a daily basis are the real heroes because of the daily part of it. I met somebody just yesterday and when I heard what he does every single day, I thought, “This is not the kind of thing people will write about. It’s not the kind of thing he’s going to talk about.”
He’s a real American hero because he does this every single day. And he manages to enjoy it.
Ralph Zuranski: What was it that he does?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Being a caregiver for his mother whom he doesn’t live with. It’s interesting that doing that on a daily basis really did make him a hero. She is very lucky to have a son like that.
Ralph Zuranski: Yea, well that’s what I’m doing for my mom and dad now and I can tell you that it is beyond anything that you could ever imagine. I remember when I said, “Oh, yea, I’ll take care of my mom and dad when they need help.” And now that I’m doing it I realize just what a great blessing it can be, but also what an incredible challenge it is everyday.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And there are so many people who meet that challenge. And those are unsung heroes, like teachers. Caregivers and teachers do really heroic work on a daily basis, but don’t get recognized for it on a daily basis, although people do realize the good that they are doing. But it’s not like their name appears in the paper and Larry King interviews them on television.
Ralph Zuranski: You know, everybody has low points in their life. Some people get defeated by having just one low point in their life, and many people have lots of low points. What’s one of the lowest points in your life, and how did you change your path to have victory over the obstacles that you were experiencing at that time?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I’d say that probably the lowest point was when I thought that I had achieved my lifetime ambition working in Chicago. It was thirteen degrees below zero and I thought, “Boy, here I am having done everything that I wanted to do. However, it’s really cold here and I don’t think I want to live the rest of my life here.”
Jay Conrad Levinson: I thought that I was a success, but when I went to my advertising agency and went to the boss and asked them to transfer me. I was told that that was just not possible and it dawned on me that I was really a slave in a three-piece suit.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Although I wasn’t doing manual labor, I was doing hard labor and was still getting a place not fit for man or beast because of the weather.
Jay Conrad Levinson: When I had determined my lifestyle ambition I was twenty-one years old and hadn’t factored in the weather. But now that I was near thirty and I felt it, and I thought I was a free man, that I could do anything. So when I asked for that transfer I thought, “Of course I’ve earned it and I can do it.”
Jay Conrad Levinson: But I was told that it was impossible to transfer me and I felt at the bottom, that all along I had deluded myself. I had been a slave. I thought I was just a nicely paid employee at an advertising agency with very little control over my life because here I was doing what I wanted to do but I didn’t have the freedom to pick up and move elsewhere. So that was a bad feeling.
Jay Conrad Levinson: I knew also that in order to get out of it I had to take the kind of action that would risk my career. I had to leave my job, leave my security, and leave my income. But I did it because I wanted to feel the sense of freedom all over again.
Ralph Zuranski: So was that the dream revision that you had that set the course of your life? Having the freedom to do what you wanted at any time?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Yes, and I hate to say this, but it happened by accident. That was the step I took that gave me the freedom that I had always dreamed about. My only goal was to get out of Chicago and get to a place with a milder climate. That was the only thought that I really had.
Jay Conrad Levinson: I never knew that once I got to a place that had a more moderate climate that I would be called to the outdoors and be called to do hiking and skiing and climbing.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That I’d be called to do things that gave me more freedom than I ever had as a working stiff. And I loved my work. I looked forward to work and enjoyed the people I worked with and the kind of work I did. But I was still doing it nine to five.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Once I had moved out west, and once I started availing myself of the beautiful attractions of Redwood trees and tide pools and nearby ski slopes and rivers to run, that’s when I started really sensing a freedom that I never knew had existed before that.
Ralph Zuranski: Well you know a lot of people have setbacks in their lives and misfortunes and make mistakes. Do you think it’s important to take a positive view of the setbacks, misfortunes, and mistakes?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Oh, yes. If you don’t, you’re sunk. Because I think that everything that happens, although it has a negative view, probably if you look carefully and hard enough it also has a positive view.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And I try always to perceive the positive side of whatever happens. I allow myself to see the negative and feel the pain that that causes, but then I start searching for the positive. Thinking positive is one of the keys to success in everything.
Ralph Zuranski: How much courage does it take to pursue new ideas? I know you hated working in a climate that was just brutal and beat you down physically. How much courage did it take to quit that job and move out to a temperate climate?
Jay Conrad Levinson: It only took courage to make the decision. Once I made the decision then I knew what I had to do. I had to contact people on the West Coast and find an opportunity to get a job for myself.
Jay Conrad Levinson: It wasn’t really difficult to give notice in a company where I had worked for several years and to tell them that I was leaving because I had a justified reason to leave. They understood.
Ralph Zuranski: A lot of people when they have to make decisions are assailed by fears and doubts. How do you overcome your fears and doubts?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I never allow any to enter in. I figured that I was a pretty good survivor. I was a resourceful person and that I could make things work. So I never doubted that I would make it work.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And it never entered my mind that this wouldn’t work because I was not aiming high. I was just aiming to get free. I was not aiming to get rich. I was aiming to get free and I found it not very difficult to achieve those goals.
Ralph Zuranski: In people’s lives there are a lot of people who upset, offend, and oppose us. Do you think that it’s important to readily forgive those that do that?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Oh, yes. Lots of times will they oppose you. They are in a state of fear. Sometimes they fear for themselves. Sometimes it’s fear for you because they like you. I didn’t have too much of that but I definitely did have to overcome those feelings on the parts of some family members.
Ralph Zuranski: Do you experience service to others as a source of joy?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Absolutely yes. That’s one of the big ways that I get off everything that I do.
Ralph Zuranski: Why are heroes so important in the lives of young people?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Because when they are growing up they get to meet a certain kind of hero in their mother and then their father. They get to meet heroes in other family members.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Then they are blessed enough to meet heroes at their school, mainly in the form of teachers. That is just a limited number of heroes. Their teachers, their parents, some of their friends, some of their coaches, and for some people their clergy at the church they attend.
Jay Conrad Levinson: But those are not the kind of heroes that they end up really aspiring to be like. It’s when they get old enough to start paying attention to the media: radio, television, magazines, newspapers, and movies that they realize that the world has a lot of heroes and they’re are not just their parents and not just their teachers.
Jay Conrad Levinson: They are people who they can aspire to be who are different from those they knew about as kids. They learn a lot about those heroes just by opening their eyes and realizing what’s happening in the world around them.
Ralph Zuranski: I spent about three years going to all the internet marketing conferences, taking the photos and running the computers for the speakers. How does it feel to be recognized as one of the heroes that I met at one of the internet conferences?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I tell you, Ralph, it’s wonderful. Not just to be recognized, as such, but to be recognized by somebody like you. It’s who recognizes you that means a lot and gives you the feeling of gratification that you are going to feel. The fact that a person of your quality felt that way about me was the frosting on my cake.
Ralph Zuranski: Why do you think you were selected to be an internet hero?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Probably because I wasn’t afraid to write, and I wrote a lot of books. I wasn’t afraid to speak because when I speak I feel so much passion about my topic that I have no time to be nervous about myself.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And I think the fact that I conquered one of the greatest fears in America, the fear of public speaking, and the fear of starting a book knowing that you have to finish it before the deadline. The fact that I did that meant something to a number of people and that’s how they started identifying me as a hero, just as I identify authors or speakers as heroes.
Ralph Zuranski: Do you think that probably the fastest way to become recognized as a hero and be incredibly successful in society is being an author and a speaker both?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think those go hand in hand. It seems that if you are an author, you have to put something down and you have to tell people something. That’s the first part. If you’ve done that and done a good job, then the rest of the world recognizes that they want to hear what you are saying and they invite you to be a speaker.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That was something that was never a part of my plan at any point. But that was something that eventually evolved. I had never done public speaking but I just grew into it in a hurry because I had to. Those things happened to end up what seems to be hero status, but that was certainly not a plan.
Ralph Zuranski: Most people look at public speaking that they would rather be dead than get up in front of an audience and speak to people. How are you able to change that fear of speaking and become successful as a speaker?
Jay Conrad Levinson: It happened when I gave my first talk ever. There were a hundred people in the auditorium, which was every seat. I was on the front stage with my first book called “Earning Money without a Job.” I was delighted that I was going to be giving my first talk and then the person introduced me and the audience applauded.
Jay Conrad Levinson: The person who introduced me sat and waited for me to speak and the room fell into a hushed silence. That’s the first time it dawned on me that if I don’t talk, nobody is going to talk. They hired me to talk, so I better speak.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That’s when I just started talking because I had to and I didn’t really have notes and I wasn’t positive of what I was going to say.
Jay Conrad Levinson: But I felt intense passion for my topic because my topic was how to get free, how to earn money without a job. Not without working, but without a job. And I knew I had information of value to share with other people.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And it went from the silence of the room with one hundred people in the audience, that moment of silence is a real teaching point and turning point for me.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Once I started speaking then I knew I could do it, and I knew I could give my whole message. I knew these people really cared about what I had to say because they were listening, and they were taking notes. I think that was a little break-through moment for me.
Ralph Zuranski: So you feel it’s important to follow your passion in life and that would bring you the greatest joy?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I certainly do. I think it’s too bad it’s not mandatory, but I think that’s what it’s all about. Ask yourself this question, “If I had all the money I would ever need, what would I do with my time?” If you do that thing that you would do if you didn’t need the money then it’s interesting how the money will find a way to come up and start filling the emptiness in your life.
Ralph Zuranski: How has being recognized as an internet hero changed your life?
Jay Conrad Levinson: It’s the things that I used to work for before, such as getting invitations to make presentations, would come to me. Clients who I’d have to go after before by writing them letters and asking them to have a conversation or a consultation with me, those things would start coming to me.
Jay Conrad Levinson: People would start coming to me; I would not have to go after them. That was the first sign to me that I was becoming a hero because these people were asking me rather than the other way around.
Ralph Zuranski: How are you personally making the world a better place?
Jay Conrad Levinson: By giving people access to freedom by first of all encouraging them to work on their own if they don’t like the job. I encourage them to stay with their job if they like it because there is sure nothing wrong with jobs and lots that is right with jobs. I loved the jobs that I had, but 80% of Americans aren’t really happy with the job they have. I knew about those people.
Jay Conrad Levinson: There was also a recession going on when I wrote my first book, and I felt horrible reading the newspapers and the numbers I read: 200,000 people were laid off, 300,000 people were laid off. I thought how each of those people probably has a spouse and kids, so when they say 200,000 people they are probably meaning 600,000 people.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And it was like reading war casualties to read the casualties on the economy and reading about how many people were laid off. I felt so badly for them and their families. I thought that these people don’t realize there’s something other than a job because they spend all their time lined up at the employment office trying to get a job some place else.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That’s when I thought that I would reach out to those people and let them know that there is another way. You don’t really need another standard nine to five job, and I’m doing it.
Jay Conrad Levinson: When I found that I was able to do it myself that’s when I realized that anybody could do it because there is really nothing special about me. That’s when I started writing books to give people that same kind of access to freedom, access to security and access to financial independence.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And that was my motivating factor. I never once, ever, thought of making money writing a book. I didn’t write my book with any idea of making money. I wrote it with the idea of putting forth the message to people who really needed to hear that message.
Ralph Zuranski: So you really feel that the only real security that someone can have is being self-employed.
Jay Conrad Levinson: I don’t know if that’s the only real security, but it’s certainly the security that gives you the most freedom.
Ralph Zuranski: What do you think about the “In Search of Heroes Program” and its impact on youth, parents, and business people?
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think it’s so valuable, Ralph, because it’s not one of the things covered in the curriculum of the educational facilities of the world. It’s not one of the things covered by all the parents and aunts and uncles and grandparents that teach the kids.
Jay Conrad Levinson: It’s something that is very important, but it takes very special people to single out that message and to single out the people who need to hear it.
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think that’s what makes it unique and very important. You and your programs are one of the only sources that exist on earth that show people that role models are all over the place and all you have to do is look.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Your father may be a role model, your mother may be a role model, and people who you don’t read about in the newspapers also could be role modeling you. There are lots of heroes out there and they don’t all wear ribbons and badges and uniforms.
Ralph Zuranski: That’s very true. What are the things parents can do that would help their children realize that they, too, can be heroes and make a positive impact on the lives of others?
Jay Conrad Levinson:: I think by exposing them to the lives of other heroes and letting them know that all those heroes started out as young kids who really didn’t know what the heck they were going to do or which way is up.
Jay Conrad Levinson: I think if parents could point to other people, just like the kids who rose above whatever their circumstances were and found their dream and then pursued their dream, that’s the best that they can do.
Jay Conrad Levinson: And the best, of course, even more important than that, is to constantly encourage their children to be who they are. Not to change them, but to encourage them to be who they are, and then along the way to point out other heroes.
Ralph Zuranski: That’s really the truth of the issue, isn’t it? Encouraging people and helping to guide young people, compared to being your kid’s buddy.
Jay Conrad Levinson: That’s exactly right. You’ve got to be their buddy, that nice. You’ve also got to love them, which is crucial. You’ve got to know when to set limits, which is one of those important and difficult things for parents.
Jay Conrad Levinson: But you’ve also got to expose them to the kind of people you’d like to be just so they see what other heroes are like. It may not be what they’ve been reading in their comic books or seeing on television.
Ralph Zuranski: A lot of the heroes that I talk to all really believe that mentors are crucial in the development of kids. Where do you think the best mentors are located?
Jay Conrad Levinson: They may be located in your family, but they are probably located in something that is connected with your first employment. At least that’s where I found mine. My first boss was a mentor to me.
Jay Conrad Levinson: My second boss was also a mentor to me. I felt very blessed to work at companies where I had people I respected. I would single them out and ask them questions and just sit at their feet and hang on their answers. I think the employment part of my life is where I found my mentors.
Ralph Zuranski: Jay, I really appreciate your valuable time and I appreciate you answering the questions. Is there a parting piece of information you have for the young people listening to this call?
Jay Conrad Levinson: Yes, there sure is. I think people think that growing up happy and growing up heroic is something that happens because of luck or with hard work. I’m here to say that there are only two things that you have to do to make those kinds of dreams come true and they are very simple things.
Jay Conrad Levinson: The first thing is to have a plan. You have to have some sort of a plan for yourself. Secondly you have to commit to that plan. Now most people don’t have plans and of those who have plans, very few have what it takes to commit to that plan no matter what.
Jay Conrad Levinson: But I think if you have a plan and you commit to it no matter what, then you will never accept failure because you’ll realize that failure isn’t really failing, it just gives you an opportunity to start again.
Jay Conrad Levinson: People don’t fail. They just fall down and forget that they can get up again. They quit trying. When you quit trying, that’s when I predict dire circumstances for your life. But as long as you keep trying, that proves your commitment.
Jay Conrad Levinson: If you have the commitment, I believe you will make your dreams come true and you will become somebody else’s hero.
Ralph Zuranski: That is really profound. I really appreciate your time, Jay, and again, just thank you.
Jay Conrad Levinson: Thank you for taking the time to bring these aspects out and all the people we are talking to. Ralph, you are doing a yeoman’s job and a very valuable job for everybody on the planet, and I for one am very grateful to be part of it. Thank you for asking me.
Ralph Zuranski: You are very welcome, Jay. Thanks again.
Jay Conrad Levinson: We’ll be talking up ahead.
Ralph Zuranski: Ok, have a good day.
Jay Conrad Levinson: So long, Ralph.
Jay Conrad Levinson is the author of the best-selling marketing series in history, “Guerrilla Marketing,” plus 59 other business books. His books have sold 20 million copies worldwide.
His guerrilla concepts have influenced marketing so much that his books appear in 62 languages and are required reading in MBA programs worldwide.
Jay taught guerrilla marketing for ten years at the extension division of the University of California in Berkeley. He was a practitioner of it in the United States — as Senior VP at J. Walter Thompson, and in Europe, as Creative Director of Leo Burnett Advertising.
A winner of first prizes in all the media, he has been part of the creative teams that made household names of The Marlboro Man, Tony the Tiger,The Pillsbury Doughboy,Charlie the Tuna, Morris the Cat, Green Giant, Allstate’s good hands, United’s friendly skies, and the Sears Diehard battery.
Jay has written for the Microsoft Website, Entrepreneur Magazine, Inc. Magazine as well as numerous other publications. He is the Chairman of Guerrilla Marketing International. His Guerrilla Marketing series of books, workshops, CDs, DVD’s, Internet website, and The Guerrilla Marketing Association a marketing support system for small business.
Most of all, Guerrilla Marketing is a way for small business owners to spend less, get more, and achieve substantial profits.
ps: to get trained directly by Jay contact please email Amy Levinson at olympiagal@aol.com
Specialties:The Father of Guerrilla Marketing
Bestselling Author
International Speaker
Senior Vice President; Creative Director
J. Walter Thompson
1968 — 1971 (3 years)
At that time was largest advertising agency in the world, located out of Chicago.
Columbia College ChicagoProfessor of Advertising
Columbia College Chicago
1965 — 1968 (3 years)
Leo Burnett AdvertisingBoard of Directors; Creative Director
Leo Burnett Advertising
1963 — 1968 (5 years)
In charge of European Division in London
United States ArmyCounter-Intellegence Corps
United States Army
1956 — 1958 (2 years)
Additional Honors & Awards
First place “Golden Lion” award at the Venice Film Festival for Television Commercials.
First Place in United States “Cleo” award for Television Advertising
“Most Important Ad of the Year” designation by Advertising Age Magazine
“Radio Commercial of the Year” by Chicago Advertising Club
“Guerrilla Marketing” book selected as one of “The 100 Best Business Books Ever Written”.